Marie sits down with Kelly Ruta and Jennifer McBrierty to talk about fear, how it affects women, and how pretending it doesn't exist isn't how you should deal with it.
Kelly Ruta online: https://kellyruta.com/
Jennifer McBrierty online: http://cornerstonemark.com/about-us
Special offer from Kelly: http://special.kellyruta.com/mind-architect-webinar-819
[00:00:07] Welcome to the Daughters of Change podcast. I'm your host. Solar. Each week we'll be bringing you stories from around the globe of the women and girls who are changing the world, each in their own unique way.
[00:00:31] Hello, all you daughters of change out there. Today we are going to be talking about feeling the fear and doing it anyway with Daughters of Change. Jennifer McBride, 80, and Kelly Ruta. So before we get started, let me tell you a little bit about our guests.
[00:00:47] Jennifer McBride, she is a seasoned direct marketing and financial services professional. And as president of Cornerstone Marketing, she's helped companies take their products direct to consumers through radio, television, [00:01:00] print, direct mail and social media advertising for over 20 years. She has also been part of five. Yes, that's right, five. That's one whole handful of startups and loves working with other entrepreneurs who are passionate about their businesses, including Daughters of Change. So I'm really happy that Jennifer's here with me, Kelly Sullivan. Ruta is a seasoned psychotherapist, turned speaker, mentor and coach for women who have the audacity to believe they can change the world and the courage to try. Kelly believes that women are being called to rise and lead from the fierce feminine like never before in modern history. She seeks to positively impact thousands of women worldwide by teaching them to create personal mastery. So they are confident, brave and in command. And that command is in capital letters, ladies. She is soon to be the author of Build Your Brave Become Unstoppable [00:02:00] in the Face of Fear and the Hair of Your Own Story, which teaches women to build their bravery as a leadership muscle because a relentlessly courageous woman is an unstoppable force of nature. Kelly is a hardcore introvert, chocolate aficionado and lover of all things speech. When she isn't working, Kelly is hanging with Ride or Die Besties, or her husband and two sons, often on the baseball field, but preferably somewhere with a good book, a glass of red and her toes in the sand.
[00:02:32] That sounds good. As a matter of fact, I think the next podcast we should do ladies with a glass of red or bottle of red.
[00:02:38] Ok. Three bottles of red, white and a white. All of our toes in the sand.
[00:02:44] So, Jennifer Kelly, welcome to the Daughters of Change podcast. Thank you. Thank you. It is so nice to be here, Marie.
[00:02:52] Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking for forward all week.
[00:02:56] Yeah, this is good. This is going to be good. We have this [00:03:00] the energy in this in this room right now and with Kelly coming in from North Carolina is is going to be going up probably just name the next hurricane after us. So we're just have to figure out a way to put our names together. So, ladies, I really have been looking forward to doing this podcast about feeling the fear and doing it anyway. I think there's a lot around it. I think all of the daughters, a change out there at some point, you know, we've all felt the fear. So what I want to do, I want to open with each of us telling the audience something that we've all been afraid of. Later on in the podcast, we'll talk to the audience about how we've overcome it. What we've learned for it before. Right now, let's just kind of get a little vulnerable and talk about what that fear has been. And I'll start out by saying when I thought about this, you'd be really honest here.
[00:03:50] I have a fear or have had a fear.
[00:03:53] I'm putting this in the past tense or getting into the past tense of being successful. And I'm not talking about a little bit successful. [00:04:00]
[00:04:00] I'm talking about a hugely successful. So that's mine.
[00:04:06] Well, that's good. I appreciate you sharing that because this is a vulnerable moment. Right. We're about to kind of peel back the curtain and let people in on some secret, so to speak. So my fear was one that I think a lot of people may have it or have had at some point in their life. But when I first started out in business early in my career, I had a job working for a marketing company and I was doing business development for them. So as part of that, I had to travel, I had to fly. We had trade shows. We had clients on the West Coast. We were here, there and everywhere. I was afraid to fly. So that was a problem because I loved this job and I really wanted to do it and I wanted to do it well. But it required that I had to go on a plane. And I was one of those white knuckle flyers, you know, hands gripped on the arm rests and you didn't want to be sitting next to me. So we'll get into how I overcame that. But it was it was a real fear. It was something [00:05:00] that I thought could be debilitating for my career. And that was scary.
[00:05:04] Absolutely.
[00:05:06] Kelly AIGs, I so appreciate you both just talking about those. These are things I hear are my clients all the time. It's just so common, right? I think we're used to thinking, oh, it's just me and why do I have this problem? But my big one really stems from years years ago. I had an active runner for seven years and had a lot of years about my physical appearance and being visible and being judged and not being good enough based on what I looked like. And since we're being really open and honest, honorable that I found out later, after years of therapy and just kind of soul searching and being aware is it really stemmed from the fact that I was sexually abused as a kid. [00:06:00] And so when you have that in your jury and you start a business, very you are the face of that business putting yourself out and you see people, many of them move. And I'm really in the beginning, especially strangers. Can trigger this fear of feeling unsafe or being seen and that beings being in and what your face looks like in which your body looks like. And all of that is just real, really, really scary, even when your logic is like it's really no big deal. You know, the rest of you. I know. Don't do it. It is scary. So that's something that I carried for a long time. And it took a lot to work through so that I can show up and be visible all the time.
[00:06:47] Thank you. Thanks for sharing that, ladies, because, you know, you're digging deep and getting vulnerable is part of overcoming your fear. You have to admit you have it first. Right.
[00:06:57] So before we go any further, I would [00:07:00] like to read a post from Kelly's Facebook page, and then I want us to have a little conversation around this, because I thought this was really poignant and really well said. So to quote Kelly Rudo. Fearless marketing is complete bullshit.
[00:07:22] You do not need to be fearless. You do not even need to fear less. You just need to learn to master yourself so that your passion, mission, vision and courage tip the scale over and over in favor of moving forward. Fear is normal.
[00:07:42] Fear is natural. Fear is natural. Fear is meant to be felt. Fear is a teacher. Fear has wisdom. But also lies. Your mastery is in your ability to discern.
[00:07:57] Kelly then says, I can't wait to share this book with you. [00:08:00] Referencing the book that she's writing that we talked about in her bio, because if there's one thing I'm really good friends with, it's fear. So, Kelly, can you expound upon that a little bit? Let's have some let's have a little bit of conversation around that.
[00:08:19] You know, a little bit more in depth on the sentiments about that post and why we need to stop telling women to be fearless and how fear habituate.
[00:08:29] So the first thing I want to say is I understand the intention behind people telling other people's fearless. The intention is don't let fear stop you. And I think that's a really good message. But what I get very concerned about is when when influential people with large platforms like Arianna Huffington, who I adore, by the way, and think it's wonderful. Tell other women, just be fearless and go for [00:09:00] it, because that is actually not helpful at all. And the reason that's not helpful is because when I talk to women, what they're saying is I'm waiting to do X, Y and Z to leave the nine to five to leave the marriage. That no longer serves me to start this business, to go after the promotion. I'm waiting until I feel more or even more confident. And that's really disempowering. And if you're waiting until you're not scared to do it anymore, you're going to be waiting a really long time. And I did not say that you will not have your worst moments. I hope everybody who's listening has that experience. I've had that experience. It's really incredible. I've had it on mostly when I'm on stage in front of people where I'm really nervous going on there. And then I just start delivering the message. And I no longer feel any fear [00:10:00] about talking to hundreds and hundreds of people. The fear just dissipates. And that's a great feeling. But I do not recommend that you wait where you don't need to be without fear. As a matter of fact, fear can be a fabulous motivator. Problem is, we've been taught and we're kind of wired as human beings, psychologically speaking, to be fear averse. And in the beginning.
[00:10:29] Fear was meant to keep us from being maimed or from being killed. So it had a really important purpose. But we've sort of outgrown that. We know of the things that, you know, that we teach our kids basically, you know, don't jump out in front of traffic. Don't stick your hand in boiling hot water. You know, the basic things to keep ourselves safe. Well, the problem is we've habituated voiding things that scare us. And that feeds the ego. The ego wants nothing more than for you to [00:11:00] just hang out in that comfort zone. Even when your comfort zone sucks relationship, you're stuck in an income ceiling in your business. Your ego is going to tell you, no, don't go do that. You know, brand new thing, don't change your messaging. Don't raise your prices. Don't ask for the you know, the Rennie's because it stretches you outside of your comfort zone and then it triggers fear. So, you know, the longer we listen to the fear, the longer fear and fear based action or lack of becomes a habit. And then you've wired your brain and your brain sends chemical messages to your body saying, no, don't do that thing. Hang out right where you are. And we as women, as you know, your your entire movement is called Daughters of Change. We can not be the trailblazer of that. I mean, if [00:12:00] we hang out in fear based habits. So that's why I'm constantly saying. And I would say it to Oprah. I love Oprah. I would love someday to be on Super Bowl Sunday. But I would say to her, please, please, please stop telling women to be fearless because it's not necessary.
[00:12:17] And what's happening is we're waiting we're waiting to feel that that courage and that absence of fear before we do these big things. And that's not what the world needs us to do right now.
[00:12:30] So that's comforting to hear you say that. Kelly, because quite honestly, and I'm just going to lay it out there. I'm scared shitless most of the time, but I'm just moving through it. And I know that as little girls, we're actually taught to be risk adverse. You know, don't get that dress dirty. Don't you know which I was always sort of pushing against that I have a feeling the two of you ladies were, too. But, you know, we're taught to be risk adverse. So. So Jennifer kind of picking up on that string. [00:13:00] You know, you and I have talked a little bit about fear and what's it telling us and what what's the lesson we're learning? So, you know, coming off of what Kelly was just saying. Let's talk about some of that.
[00:13:14] Yeah. To me, it's you know, when I think about fear, it's usually for me. Least caused by something I don't understand or something I'm not prepared for. So it's that fear of what's unknown or it's just a lack of what I don't know about it. I mean, for me, with the fear of flying, I didn't know the first thing about flying in planes and aerodynamics. And I just knew that I was scared there would be turbulence and I would think we're going down. In my mind, in-stream went to the worst case scenario. Right. So your mind's skipping ahead to all these scenarios. Did I know that? I absolutely didn't know that I wasn't a pilot. I sit in the cockpit. I didn't understand all of the nuances of flying. But so for me, when when I feel myself in those situations, I really consciously try to step back and [00:14:00] say, what is this fear grounded in? Is it grounded in something that I have a frame of reference to actually say, yeah, that makes sense. I should be afraid. I'm walking down a dark street and there's two shadows coming up behind me. That's legitimate fear. You should you should take action in that case. But when it's something else, when it's just a fear, whether it's Kelly mentioned public speaking, whether it's flying, whether it's fear of succeeding, what is it? What's at the root of that? And I try to have that conversation with myself and say, is it just a lack of something I'm not fully educated on yet that I can fix, that I can solve? I also think that once you move past that and you figure out what is causing the fear that you can start to address that feeling is so much better than the flipside of how bad the fear felt. I mean, the pushing through that to understand the whys behind it so that you can actually address it, I think is just so important. It has been for me.
[00:14:58] And, you know, I [00:15:00] actually looked up the definition of fear.
[00:15:06] And now I'm trying to find where I put it to her is to hopefully as well, if I know.
[00:15:12] I actually looked up the definition of fear because, you know, it can mean a lot of different things to different people. So according to the Oxford dictionaries, it's an unpleasant emotion caused by the threat of danger, pain or harm, whether that's real or perceived.
[00:15:32] Right. That's the big question of is that. Is that legitimate?
[00:15:36] Exactly. Exactly. So are we even defining what we're feeling is fear so. Kelly, I had a question for you around this because you were a psychotherapist and you know, that's your background.
[00:15:49] What is the difference between fear and anxiety? Is there a difference?
[00:15:54] There is a difference, but there's a lot of arguments about the difference. What I think is [00:16:00] important is really for people to understand that the only thing that matters in terms of whether you call it fear or anxiety or worry or, you know, there's lots of synonyms is how it's impacting you. That's the only thing that actually matters. So, you know, if everybody has fear and many, many people have anxiety, if the only thing that matters is what is the impact on your life in terms of how you're experiencing that emotion? Now, if you have crippling anxiety, for example, my son has obsessive compulsive disorder, which is a form it's an anxiety disorder where he will perceval rate over things, mostly irrational things, and it will cause him to do compulsive things. Like when he was little, he'd have to click his seatbelt six or seven times in order to kind of interrupt the anxiety pattern in his [00:17:00] brain. Right.
[00:17:01] That's a for other people just have this kind of generalized, persistent worry all day long about things that they know are relatively irrational. It's not that they could never happen. It's just that the likelihood that they will happen is very, very low. So the important thing for people to understand when it comes to fear or anxiety is number one.
[00:17:24] What is it costing you if you don't address it? So what are what are the consequences? What are the costs of this being left sort of unchecked and just kind of running amok in your life?
[00:17:39] And second of all, are you having rational fears, which just means they have relatively predictable, consistent outcomes? If you jump in front of a train, you're probably going to die. That's pretty rational. Like Jennifer said, if you're walking down a dark alley and you see strangers coming towards you or you feel them coming [00:18:00] up behind you, your body's going to send you signals. You know what? Protect yourself. Get out of the way.
[00:18:05] This is, you know, a situation where something Michael row when we have fears of things like making more money or of doing a Facebook live to 0 or.
[00:18:18] Leaving our 9:00 to 5:00 and starting the business that we've been dreaming about for a decade. It's not to say that there couldn't be a negative outcome, but the likelihood that the negative outcome is actually going to cause you irreversible harm is really, really low. So that's where, you know, I like to tell people to just get clear about how the uncomfortable feeling, regardless of what you call it, is negatively impacting you. This is, again, back when I was a psychotherapist. The only reason we called anything, anything or we gave a diagnosis is just about treatment. That was [00:19:00] it. You just gave something a name out of the DSM book because it informed how you would treat that person. Now that I'm, you know, coaching instead of doing psychotherapy, it's really more about how is this impacting your life and what are we going to do to alter that negative impact in your business, in your life, in your relationships? Is that making sense? Lam explainable.
[00:19:24] It does. Yeah, it does. That's such a good way to put it.
[00:19:27] Any further thoughts on that? Jen, from things that you've experienced, I mean, you've been part of five startups and there's fear around, you know, startups, but you're moving through it.
[00:19:36] Yeah, there is fear around startups. And I think it's something that for me, I'm an overprepare. And I have found that in a lot of cases my fear is I can I can work through it by preparing. So, for example, if if I were working on a startup and the concern is we're not going to have enough funds to bring this product to fruition or to get it to market [00:20:00] the way we need to. For me, that just means I got to dig into the numbers. So I don't let just that fear of the big picture of all the financials are never going to work. Well, what does that actually mean? So I will drill down an overprepare and sit with someone who's an expert in financial planning if necessary and understand the numbers. And sometimes the numbers do say, you know, this is gonna be a challenge. OK, well, that's a good process to go through before you just take the leap and say, well, I'm going to do it. This is something I feel strongly about. Maybe there's a different way. So I get what Kelly saying in that, you know, it's it's not just a matter of just push through it, push through the fear. It's not. That's easier said than done. I mean, what does that actually mean in practicality? How do we do that? And for me, it's over preparing. If I'm afraid to give a speech or I've got a present to a board of directors and it's on a topic that I'm advising them on. But it's not something that I have years of experience in. I will overprepare so that if it's a 20 minute presentation, [00:21:00] I have enough data to talk for hours on it. And that's just me as somewhat of a perfectionist saying I'm not going to put myself in that situation where the nerves are gonna get to me even more because I'm not prepared for it. So I think there's an element of hard work pays off. You can overcome a lot through preparation and hard work for yourself.
[00:21:22] So is it fair to say that? If so, where we're feeling some sort of fear or anxiety around something if we take a minute. As we've talked about earlier, to sort of dig deep and figure out why we're feeling that in the first place. And then both of you have really talked to me separately. And what we've been sort of alluding to here is sort of figured out how to master that. Right. So if you can first figure out. Why you're feeling the fear and then come up with some tools that work for you individually [00:22:00] to help. Let's just say deal with the fear so you can move forward and see how legitimate they are.
[00:22:08] Right. We've talked about whether the fear is legitimate or not. I mean, if if your fear is that the business is you're to lose your life savings. That's a legitimate fear. So how do you deal with that? You sit down and you say, well, how is that not going to happen? I mean, what do I need to do to ensure that if that's truly the worst case scenario, how do I make sure that doesn't happen? And it doesn't mean it's a foolproof, you know, solution, because things happen and there are things that are out of our control. But try as best you can, control what you can and understand that you can't control what you can't. But dig into the details. It's always served me well.
[00:22:46] Yeah. Discerning and and what's the worst case scenario? And so, Kelly, in your experience, working with clients, both as a psychotherapist and as a coach, are there certain questions, [00:23:00] for instance, that that somebody can use to ask themselves to discern whether this is a legitimate fear or not and to figure out what tools they can use as an individual to help them move forward through it?
[00:23:17] Yeah, I would I would start by saying that just from my perspective, all fear is legitimate in that, you know, everybody's experience is their own. And when you're in it, it's real. Whether or not somebody else says to you, oh, no, you don't have to worry about that. You don't have to be afraid of that. That typically doesn't have a huge effect up long term on somebodys fear, because most most fear is not all, but most fears are relatively irrational. And so you're using logic to dial down your fear is a great tactic. As Jennifer was saying. But when you have fear, that's kind of been habituated [00:24:00] over time. And you just it's just kind of with you all the time about different things. Logic isn't gonna get at it. So what I try to tell people is they keep building your confidence and building your bravery so that you bring it with you across the board, regardless of what's happening happening in your environment, is to step out of trying to control and step into being in command of yourself, because guess what? You can't control things. Even as much as you would like to think that you and the only thing we are, in essence, truly in control of is how we respond, what how we respond to our thoughts, how we respond to our emotions and how we respond to what's going on in our external environment.
[00:24:48] And when you try to control things all the time, it actually can put you in a huge downward. So what I try to teach women is to be in command of themselves. [00:25:00] And how you do that is by first and her.
[00:25:08] So self-awareness is really key. And and just being curious when your fear or your anxiety or your worry or your whatever you want to call it comes up.
[00:25:19] Instead of jumping in and kind of like faluting with it and arguing with it or rationalizing with it or whatever, is to actually take a step back away from it acknowledged like, hey, this is just kind of how I'm feeling right now. This is really uncomfortable this and being curious. Isn't that interesting that this is how I'm feeling about this situation right now? This is really, really interesting. I wonder what this is all about, because what most people do is they hop in to their feeling and then they judge it. I don't want to feel like that. I shouldn't feel like that. This doesn't even make sense. Why am I making such a big deal [00:26:00] out of this?
[00:26:01] And then they try to control the situation when really we are much better served by training yourself to be a woman who is in command, which separates you from everything that's going on externally because you're not in control of what's going on externally. Really? Almost ever.
[00:26:22] So for me, it regardless of what situation I step into you, I bring confidence with me because I feel and I have it's a skill set. I've trained myself to be a man. The questions I encourage people to ask are around curiosity. Isn't this interesting that I'm feeling this way? I wonder kind of where this is coming from. And I let myself be okay with the fact that I'm feeling fearful and anxious, a little intimidated, a little ungrounded right now, rather than get on myself about the fact that I'm feeling [00:27:00] like that, which drives a lot of things like perfectionism. I'm totally, by the way, and like 12-Step program or perfectionism recovery. So I know it's a big thing with women. And, you know, honestly, you've been culturally trained to try to be perfect in lots of ways. But I find that command is far, far more empowered and better serving for women than control. So it doesn't that doesn't answer your question specifically.
[00:27:34] I don't have like a list of questions, but that's to reframe and a different paradigm that I trying to teach people so that regardless of what happens in your business meeting or in your conversation with your husband or your team meeting or your your online launch, that you are firmly grounded in command of yourself so that that external situation doesn't readily much.
[00:27:57] So there's also it sounds like. Well, [00:28:00] that sounds like I'm for myself. There's some shame around fear, right? There's that shame of I shouldn't, you know, because people are telling us to be fearless. And I'm glad to hear that even though I think a snake is gonna eat my head.
[00:28:12] And that's not logical, that that that's you know, I'm not the only person out there that has sort of, you know, irrational thoughts about fears that that are instilled from God knows what. You know, I mean, I have to baby dig a little deeper into the snake thing, but I think I'm going to wait on that.
[00:28:29] That's another blog 'cause the podcast with Jennifer.
[00:28:33] What was coming to mind when Kelly was talking about being in command, like sitting with it, you know, as opposed to. So for you it's saying, okay, I may I may not be able to change this this outcome and there may be something that could go wrong here. But the way I take command is to go in and dig deep and prepare. Right. So. And that probably is going to be a little bit different [00:29:00] for everybody. Are the common tools that you see other people using as well? Jennifer, that you've worked with?
[00:29:07] Yes, it's in question. And I just going back to what Kelly said before, I think the whole self-talk and what you're saying yourself is vital. You know, I love the way she suggests to just distanced yourself as if you're looking at the situation outside of yourself to just say, OK, this is this is interesting. I mean, even just that phrase alone is enough to sometimes take the edge off when you're in that situation and say, OK, this is this is uncomfortable. This is different. I do feel intimidated or I don't like the way he or she is speaking to me or I. All of a sudden have, you know, the physical side of anxiety happening to me and recognize that and to try to command that. I love that word, command, because that puts you in control of the situation. Even though you're feeling at that moment, you have you have no control. [00:30:00] The physical reactions are taking over. Your hands are sweaty, your heart is beating, you're breaking out in hives. And whatever it may be is is. Happening to you, so I love that I just picture that right, I'm standing there and I see myself outside myself. I'm looking at the situation and trying to say those things to yourself. Me, we're not kind to ourselves when we're in these situations. If anything were were piling or not, we're making it worse by what we're saying to ourself. I mean, and that's so destructive.
[00:30:29] Oh, my God. Is that better? That was that was. I have goose bumps. That was beautifully said. And right on the money.
[00:30:39] And if I could just piggy back and say, I think that the greatest measure of personal command is how responsive you are versus how reactive you are. And that's the thing that I try to teach women. That is one of the most powerful ways that [00:31:00] you can stand in command. And you can't do that from a place of judgment, because the minute you're judging what's going on, whether it's yourself or the other person, you will immediately be triggered to react. But when you can step sort of outside or just take one small step back and observe without judgment, it gives you the mental bandwidth, the emotional bandwidth and kind of ability, the center and ground yourself and choose an empowered response rather than, you know, sort of the former of me, which is I'm going to go right into aggressive mode. Like many times I thought to myself, I just should've been an attorney. What am I doing?
[00:31:47] My job, too, is like, no, I'm just going to have we're it's going to throw down over this. But really, my best work is done from a place of command and response [00:32:00] rather than being reactive.
[00:32:03] And that's very hard to do when you're sitting there upset with yourself for being upset or with yourself for being anxious and for your body doing what, of course, it would do when you're triggered. You're you're the whole chemical reaction in your body is going to happen. It's very natural. So when we're raging that and we're being awful to ourselves inside, you know, our mental narrative, it's really hard not to be reactive in that situation. So I think Jennifer just kind of pretty much nailed it.
[00:32:37] Easier said than done. But, you know, it comes from you know, it's it it happens over time. Right. I mean, you learn these things as you find yourself in these situations. And it always feels good on the other side, even though in the moment it's tense and it's, you know, there's anxiety there. And whatever we call it, fearing zeidi. But coming through that, if you're able to react that way [00:33:00] and find the command, it's such it's just like it's it's endorphins. It's the opposite of fear. I mean, it's truly the other the other side of the coin.
[00:33:09] It's powerful. It it's when you are able to do that, when you're able to step back and and respond in a logical way, as our good friend Wolf says, you know, high logic, low emotion versus high emotion. Low logic. You feel so powerful after you've done that. I mean, it's like those are one of the times when you're like like like, I've got it, I've got it. I understand this. You know, and being able to for me a lot of times I'll look at something and say, what's the worst that can happen? So when I feel myself, I'll do two things. I'll check. And if my gut is really kicking up about something and feeling anxious or feeling fear, I try to check in and say, what's that about? And A and B, I need to listen to this. But then if I once I can kind of identify that, I'll say, like, what's the worst thing that can happen?
[00:33:59] And [00:34:00] when I quit my job to start, daughters have changed completely counterintuitive to anything you would ever do, right? Like give up your you know, your well-paying job to just kind of let your butt flap in the breeze and figure things out. It was really scary. But I kept saying, what's the worst thing that would happen? OK, am I? I could lose everything. Am I going to be homeless? Well, somebody would take me. And I remember I would call my friends, go. This doesn't work. Come with you. I if you if you think about realistically, what's the worst thing that can happen that can sometimes not that that wouldn't be scary.
[00:34:35] But I mean, it's like you're not going to die. You're not.
[00:34:38] The truth is, many of us have already lived through a worst case scenario, like, let's be honest, the number of people walking around this planet that have trauma in their history that I have to talk about it. You know, one of the gifts of surviving something traumatic, whether it's a horrible loss and the grief [00:35:00] you've gone through it or, you know, violence or abuse or neglect, whatever it may be. I am always encouraging people to reframe how they see themselves as a result of those experiences. So you may have been a victim in that moment, but you do not define yourself as a victim as a result. As a matter of fact, you that whatever that thing is that you survived, you now can use that as well. I've already been through that thing, and it may be knocked me down for a minute or two, but I'm still here. And so guess what? There's not, as I say this all the time. There is nothing that you're gonna do to me or that life's going to do to me or that business is gonna do to me. That's gonna be any worse than what I've been through already. And if I've lived through that and I'm thriving, you should. I am unstoppable. [00:36:00] That period, end of story. Yet I find too many women. The fear of what if? What if? What if? What if? Yeah, what if. Go list out all the things you've already survived in this life that you've probably minimized and said what most women do, which is like, you know, just pull up your big girl panties and move on, move some theory and stop. Let's not minimize the fact that you've not only lived through it, but in a lot of ways you're arriving. And so the what if becomes. Bring it. Bring it. Because I've been there and I've done it already. And you're not going to stop me. And it's not going to stop me.
[00:36:45] Bring it on. Bring it. I love. Yeah. Bring you change. Bring it. Yeah. We get out. Because we've got our big girl panties on and they're already pulled up after I did up to my shoulder. Okay. [00:37:00]
[00:37:00] So ladies, I want to come back for a second to talk about before we start like wrapping up, I want to hear about how you overcame the fears that we talked about. Initially, and I'll just jump in here and say that I am in the process of overcoming that by doing what I'm doing now, I'm putting myself out there. I am. I've addressed my relationship with Bare of success and what that might mean in terms of. You know, is it going to take up all my life is going to change or people that I know who I am, and when I really thought about I think that the thing that I was most scared of was having my a tournament taken away from me by my success. And what I'm what I've learned is my autonomy is greater because of my success.
[00:37:52] So I'm I'm working through it right now as I sit here. And every time I put myself out there like, hey, you know it by face off, Facebook [00:38:00] Live or my voice on a podcast.
[00:38:02] So I am I am working through it. And what I've learned is that once you put your toe in the water, the next thing you know, you're up, teenies it before you know it, you're diving in and you're swimming. So just move it forward.
[00:38:16] So I love that. That's awesome. Yeah. Jennifer so for me, I said, you know, my fear was fear of flying. And that was pretty debilitating in a career that had me on a plane quite a bit. And there was one particular trip that I was traveling with a colleague who was subsequently a very good friend of mine, and we were sitting at the back of the plane in the turbulence was terrible. And off the back of the plane, it's always even worse than at the front of the plane. And we were sitting there and he could see that I was just not comfortable. I was just a nervous wreck. And we started chatting. He was trying to just take the edge off and take my mind off things. And he had been a merchant marine. So he had traveled the world on a ship six months at a time, flying here, home and in there. So we started talking about, well, what is it? [00:39:00] You know, he said, what is it about the turbulence that's causing you to be so worried and so stressed? And I said, I just don't I don't know. I just feel like the wings are gonna snap off. Something's going to happen. We're gonna crash. And I'm always going, you know, to the worst case scenario when these things start to happen and I'm in a plane. He said, you know, I've been on a ship for years. He said, and if you think about being on a ship, there's water. Right. Sometimes it's calm. Sometimes it's rough. He said ships are built to go through that. That substance, they they flow through water, he said air travel is the same thing. Air is like water.
[00:39:35] It's smooth at times. It's bumpy at other times. It's turbulent. It's windy. The shifts in wind. And I sat there and I said, you know, that was interesting because it was more it was knowledge. It was something that I hadn't thought about. So that really stuck with me. That trip came back and I said, you know, I just couldn't stop thinking about. That was really solid information that I didn't know. And I said, you [00:40:00] know, if I'm going to conquer this, I got to know more about air travel and just flying in general. So I enrolled in private pilot lessons. I mean, crazy as it sounds. Me who's afraid to fly. So for six months after work, two nights a week, I would go and I was getting trained to learn all about the aerodynamics of flying the navigation systems, the weather, all of it. And I not only passed the FAA flight exam, but I was logging flight hours. I was flying a plane. Not only was I not afraid of it, I was loving it. And it was so empowering and it was just so rewarding for me to go through that experience. And I will sit now on planes and I can spot who's nervous because that was me. And I'm the one now who can sleep during takeoff and landing because I know what's going on. I know what that sound is when the flaps of the wings come down. I know what the sound is when the wheels come down. So for me, it gets back to I didn't know what my fear was grounded [00:41:00] in. And it turns out it was just lack of knowledge. And I was able to do that.
[00:41:05] I bet that's true. I love that story. That story blows my mind that and years later, I went skydiving.
[00:41:11] So I jumped out of a plane while we were up there. So, again, it was just. What? What. What aren't I. What don't I understand here that's causing this fear? And I turn that fear into what's actually fun. I mean, I enjoy it.
[00:41:25] Well, the whole skydiving, I'm I have come to terms with that fear. And I am never do. And I'm OK. Not always. I was younger when I did it. I don't know that I'd do it again. But once, you know, check that off the bug. Got to love that. Kelly, what about you?
[00:41:40] Well, really? Same thing as both of you. The truth is, and even research fleshes out that the only way over fear is through it. And so for me, you know, I got treatment for an eating disorder, which was necessary. But even after you get treatment, you [00:42:00] know, your relationship with your body and your appearance at all of those things, it still requires a great deal of TLC and care, even when the disorder is no longer active. And so for me, it's really all it's a bit about tapping into and consistently using the side of my personality that maybe my parents cringe the most, which is I am just extremely rebellious and defiant by nature. And so I call bullshit on my fear all the time.
[00:42:40] Well, I'm sure that was very difficult to parent, but as an adult, it's probably my favorite part of myself is that I have compassion for the parts of me that are afraid because they're really not about me being an adult.
[00:42:56] Those are the parts of me that, you know, were wounded [00:43:00] when I was a kid. And I have to be compassionate about those parts of myself. But so I'm consistently doing things that require me to be seen all the time. One of my least favorite things to do is get my picture taken. And so I make sure I do it multiple times a year. I have multiple photo shoots every single year, regardless of where my weight is at, regardless of how many new wrinkles have stumbled across my face, regardless of whatever, you know, all of the things that in my head I'm being hypercritical about. I.
[00:43:36] I do it because I want to give the double middle finger to, you know, that part that can not be wearing a leather dress at the size that you are at. I'm like, really? Watch me. So that is really how I lean into it. But the other piece of it is I am so committed to changing the cultural dialogue and paradigm about [00:44:00] women's worth being tied to our shape and our size and our color and our.
[00:44:06] All these other things that I feel like the more visible I am, regardless of whether I've gained weight or lost weight or leaned out or whatever. The more permission it gives women to show up all the time. And so that for me, is such a powerful driver of everything I do in my business that I'm like, yup. Too much on vacation and I'm still doing that photo shoot on Monday. No, not really. That's what I lean into. Help me move through the fear, but the fear comes with me. Be very clear.
[00:44:41] I'm not showing up to a photo shoot. Not afraid. I'm not, you know, opening the e mail from the photographer with with all of the digital files in it, you know, feeling a little bit noches. It's that's not going to change. It's just that that no longer [00:45:00] informs my decisions at all. At all. So it's it's through it instead of getting over it, because I understand that confidence is built from the doing. You don't wait to feel confident. Then go do something much like Jennifer was talking about. The feeling on the other side is the reward for the doing. That is where your confidence comes from. And I think that's the thing women get backwards all the time is waiting to feel more confident before we go do that thing. And no, go do that. Saying your reward will be a growth. Confident.
[00:45:36] I love that. That. Yeah, that is that's that's really it's true, too. I mean having you know, at the at the on the you know, thirty nine. I know. I no doubt that. No that's true of. So ladies where we're getting ready to wrap up here. So before we go I would love each one of you and your two or three sentences to give your best [00:46:00] piece of advice to the daughters of change who are out there listening.
[00:46:04] Jen, I would say two things. Trust your instincts and learn what those intuitive feelings are telling you. Good in bed. The other thing I would say is she hit the nail on the head with regards to compassion. Be compassionate to yourself. Be nice to yourself. You know, as a woman, we raise children were the caregivers. You know, we're compassionate and caring to all of the people that we love in our lives. Turn that around. Give yourself some of the love.
[00:46:34] A man. Oh, Kelly. Oh, la. Oh, I love that. Oh, I never.
[00:46:42] I would squeeze you if I was sitting in a room with.
[00:46:47] Holy cow. OK, I'll squeeze her for you. Biggest pieces of advice. Best pieces of advice are we as strong independent women have been taught to pull [00:47:00] ourselves up by the bootstraps and just get things done by ourselves. And I think that's a big mistake. So one of the greatest gifts I've given myself is getting involved with groups of other women and allowing myself to be supported, not having to do everything myself just because I'm smart and capable. We thrive as women in community. So seek out whether it's a mastermind, a networking group, you know, an online group, whatever it is, a group of like minded women, and allow yourself to be vulnerable and supported so that you are not draining the well dry all the time by being the nurture, the caregiver, the supporter of everyone else, and not being on the receiving end of your own support. That would be my first thing. And this thing [00:48:00] would be to in terms of building your bravery. I believe that that bravery, I think everyone thinks is a feeling. It's really a skill. It's much more like love. Everybody thinks love is a feeling. It's an action. And so the thing I would encourage you to do to build your bravery is to engage in daily acts of micro bravery. So things are just tiny, small things where you're complimenting a stranger, where you're saying no to something. It's where you normally would have said yes because you're a people pleaser, where you send your food back at the restaurant.
[00:48:43] It's a crappy meal and you're not going to settle for it and you send it back. So just these daily acts of micro bravery in the end will put deposits into your bravery account and you will at some point wake up and realize, holy [00:49:00] cow, I have so much more courage than I ever had before. And it's not because I did this big leap thing. It's because I practiced bravery every day on a small scale. So those are my two ladies.
[00:49:14] That's wonderful advice. And we're just we're going to make sure that everybody knows how to get a hold of both view if they want to go to your Web site. So I know that, Kelly, you have a mind architect. Workshop and class, as well as the book that you're writing. That will be out soon. And you also do coach. Yeah. So how do people get in touch with you, Kelly? What? What is the best way to make sure? By the way, that all of this is in the show notes as well with links. But, Kelly, what's the best way for people to get a hold?
[00:49:47] So I'm really easy to get a hold of. You can find out more about me and what I offer my coaching programs and what's available on my Web site, which is simply Kelly Root.com. But you can reach out [00:50:00] to me if you have Facebook or Instagram with, you know, a director private message and, you know, connect with me there. I am all about personal connection. I feel like in this digital age that unfortunately has been lost a bit. And I'm still a firm believer in connecting and having conversations so you can find me over on Facebook or on Instagram. And if you have a question or you want a connector or talk about working, doing some work together, just send me a message and let's have a conversation.
[00:50:32] Fantastic. So we'll make sure that's in the show notes now. Jennifer, how can people get a hold of you? Bye, dear woman.
[00:50:38] Yeah, absolutely. They can go to my Web site, which is Cornerstone Mark dot com if they're interested in hearing more about the marketing services that I do. If they have a product or something they think would do well through direct response media, whether it's TV, radio, print, home shopping channels. I'm also very passionate about charities that help kids. I work with a local group here in Maine called The Dream Factory [00:51:00] of Maine. And if you have a charity or something that has to do with kids, I'd love to hear more. There's something I could do to volunteer to help put my marketing skills to good use. I would love to speak to anybody that's passionate about those types of things that I am.
[00:51:13] Fantastic.
[00:51:14] So we're going to make sure all of that is in the show notes so you can find the link and you can contact these fabulous daughters of change. So we'll leave you with this quote. Courage is resistance to fear. Mastery of fear, not absence of fear. Mark Twain, ladies, thank you. It's been a fearless show.
[00:51:42] It has. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been amazing. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Daughters of Change podcast. To learn more about today's guest or any of our previous guests, you can visit. Daughters of Change dot com forward slash podcast. [00:52:00] You can connect with Daughters of Change on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram by searching those platforms for Daughters of Change. If you are a daughter of change herself and would like to appear on the show, send me an email at Marae at. Daughters of Change dot com. Thanks again for taking the time to listen today. Take care.